"A joke is like a frog, you can dissect it to demonstrate how it works, but it dies in the process."
Well, with that caveat out of the way, my opinion is that it just can't be translated directly like that into contemporary American English without the addition of some extra words or context and have the punch land as intended. At the very least, the arse should start with an indefinite article, "A Granny Smith!" It seems such a minor difference, but to me "It was a honeycrisp!" sounds a lot better and funnier.
A joke like this should only require the brain to do one recalculation - funny because of a single clever misdirection - but without at least an article, that translation into English is experienced as taking two steps, the grammatical friction being a stumbling block to the humor content.
If I were telling this joke, I wouldn't have the arse come back up at all. I'd have the guy accompanied by his idiot companion or servant. "Jesus Joe! What the heck WAS that?" - "Well sir, if I had to guess, I'd say it was a Granny Smith!"
A skazochnaya collection - and it brings back many memories I didn't know I still had... I lived through the 90s in Moscow, and remember the 'malinovie pidjaki' (maroon jackets) and the obsession with 600 Mercs. The defence minister (who said he could take Grozny in two hours) for a lot of the time was Pavel Grachev, whose nickname was Pasha Mercedes. And the prime minister for a while, Kasyanov, was known as Misha 2 percent for the cut he took in everything that passed his desk. It was about that time that priests got in on the act, and decided they deserved jeeps, and a big slice of the tobacco business (which I believe the patriarchy still enjoys).
All the bureaucrats I had to deal with were aspirational New Russians even though most of them would remain decidedly Old. The 'kurator' who managed our news organisation at the foreign ministry (in other words, who approved visas etc) required that we dine him regularly at a restaurant across from the press department called Rasputin. It was largely sushi, which was a big deal in the mid 90s (though Moscow is quite a way from the sea, and you could tell...). They had a 'special menu' at the place: for a few more bucks, you could eat the sushi from body of the waitress.
I'll see if I can remember some of more of the jokes...
If somebody hasn't already done it, a compendium of post-Soviet jokes would be a superb resource to leaven some of the dry as dust academic studies about those days.
Amazing, Christopher, thanks for sharing. My direct memory of that time is very blurry—I do remember "Misha 2 percent" (who now became one of the minor opposition leaders, funnily enough) from my parents' watching TV, but that's probably because I was just learning what "percent" meant. I was five when we moved to Israel, and Russia of the nineties was mostly experienced through a Russian cable TV channel.
I do think that the folk nature of these jokes can give some insight into what was going on in people's heads at the time. And as such, it should be a subject of more rigorous study.
A guy is walking down a street in central Moscow and sees two men hard at work. One is digging holes, and when he moves on from one to the next, the second man behind him dutifully fills it in, levelling off the top nicely.
"Muzhiki, what on earth are you doing??" he asks, in disbelief.
Two English men are riding the Moscow metro. One says to the other: 'I say, Charles, these Russkies... you know, not only do they behave differently, their physiology is quite different, too.'
'How so, Freddie?'
'Well, the other day I was going for a walk and one muzhik said to another 'Oden shapku nakhui, a to ushi zamërznut!'"
Not sure if this is a Russian joke or Odessan humour - ask an Odessan how much sugar they'd like in their tea and they'll answer '6 spoons, but don't stir it, I don't like it sweet.'
Thanks, that's a classic! Odessan jokes are a special category of Russian-language jokes (I'm stepping on a landmine here), with a very specific and identifiable type of humor. Another one similar to yours would be:
- How much sugar should I put in your tea?
- One spoon, but make sure I see you put it.
I haven't read it yet, but it's definitely on my list!
I heard jokes like this from Serbian friends in the UK back in 1992. They said that all Yugoslav Jokes were about getting one over the Russians, and all Russian jokes were about dying.
Those are great! I know both of these jokes, and they indeed have their own Soviet variations. The wheelbarrow one is about stealing in a factory, and the Pagliacci one is about a Soviet comic writer, Zoshchenko. But otherwise, both are identical.
A bit over 30y ago, as a kid, I told an anekdot about a neutron bomb at a Toronto Russian community event. It pains me deeply that I can't remember the specifics.
Maybe some version of it will come through in a future post!.
What is the significance of the zinc-lined coffin? Does that simply mean it is leakproff so the decomposing body's fluids will not spill out? i.e. the body was just tossed in like in a high volume mass-burial operation? The american equiv would be I guess a "body-bag".
I get the sense it means a hasty interment with no funeral, it's almost like a mass grave, no standard civilian coffin or funeral, it's sealed and your son died a month ago, don't ask questions.
It came up in anekdoty about Ukraine war, too. So it means "soldier's burial" I guess.
Again, American verncular (especially Vietnam era) would be "shipped home in a body bag."
PS - would you recommend watching the movie referenced above? (“Dead Man’s Bluff” (“Zhmurki”), 2005) It looks hilarious, would a subtitled version be funny or would too much be lost?
I think it's just the cheapest way to halt the body decomposition while it's getting through army bureaucracy and traveling from a remote place. But yeah, probably the US analog would be "body bag", you're right.
I probably would recommend it. It is a good and weird movie. Balabanov is generally one of the best Russian directors in the last 50 years, and it's his only comedy (the rest of his stuff is incredibly bleak and nihilistic). As such, it would probably seem more absurd to you than to people who lived at that time and place, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing.
The movie was available on archive.org. I have watched through most of it. Notes/questions:
--!!Who did the music? !!! It's great, a just-slightly-off-kilter grunge soundtrack that puts me in mind of a scene in "Cryptonomicon"
I love how they just kill people and are not the slightest bit concerned about police or anybody investigating
Semyon's hidden arm guns are clearly an homage to travis Bickle's drawer-slide concealed pistol in "Taxi Driver". You can see this guy watching that movie over and over and copying all his stuff.
The whole look is so very ... Russian. I am a set and production designer. The look is heavy velvet draperies and old luxury with dismal gray exteriors and peeling paint. there is much gilding and ivory-painted wood. Even the "drug lab" has glassware on precious shelves like teacups. it all seems like it was made so long ago.
The whole visual look of this film taught me more about Russia, the historical place, and Russia, the current place and people, than any writing or interview ever could have.
It does not look good. I have affection for Russians but this looks like the worst combination of Decaying England, Decaying America, and Decaying South Africa. It is utterly dismal. I thought I was tired of California but I want to walk out tomorrow in the sunshine and embrace the very earth.
I am glad you enjoyed it, although I would recommend caution with Balabanov's other films (especially Cargo 200); they can be absolutely as dismal, but without even the slightest comedic undertones. This one was his attempt at a Tarantinoesque action-comedy. You will probably do enjoy his most famous films, Brother and Brother 2. They are straight action flicks, but they have similar aesthetics. I would put them somewhere between Rambo, Taxi Driver and Death Wish in tone, but with a Russian twist, of course.
The music was done by one of the most prominent Russian rock bands, Nautilus Pompilius, they were Balabanov's common co-creators.
Some of these are brilliant and harken back to some of the jokes I’ve heard from post-Soviet immigrant friends in Sydney.
Thanks! Do you remember some of them?
Oh like:
“What do you call a Russian Eve?
A naked woman who runs around in the frozen wasteland saying that she’s in paradise.”
Not bad!
I don't get the granny Smith one.
It's a type of apple. So instead of any explanation about an enormous ass, a man gets an explanation about an apple.
"A joke is like a frog, you can dissect it to demonstrate how it works, but it dies in the process."
Well, with that caveat out of the way, my opinion is that it just can't be translated directly like that into contemporary American English without the addition of some extra words or context and have the punch land as intended. At the very least, the arse should start with an indefinite article, "A Granny Smith!" It seems such a minor difference, but to me "It was a honeycrisp!" sounds a lot better and funnier.
A joke like this should only require the brain to do one recalculation - funny because of a single clever misdirection - but without at least an article, that translation into English is experienced as taking two steps, the grammatical friction being a stumbling block to the humor content.
If I were telling this joke, I wouldn't have the arse come back up at all. I'd have the guy accompanied by his idiot companion or servant. "Jesus Joe! What the heck WAS that?" - "Well sir, if I had to guess, I'd say it was a Granny Smith!"
A skazochnaya collection - and it brings back many memories I didn't know I still had... I lived through the 90s in Moscow, and remember the 'malinovie pidjaki' (maroon jackets) and the obsession with 600 Mercs. The defence minister (who said he could take Grozny in two hours) for a lot of the time was Pavel Grachev, whose nickname was Pasha Mercedes. And the prime minister for a while, Kasyanov, was known as Misha 2 percent for the cut he took in everything that passed his desk. It was about that time that priests got in on the act, and decided they deserved jeeps, and a big slice of the tobacco business (which I believe the patriarchy still enjoys).
All the bureaucrats I had to deal with were aspirational New Russians even though most of them would remain decidedly Old. The 'kurator' who managed our news organisation at the foreign ministry (in other words, who approved visas etc) required that we dine him regularly at a restaurant across from the press department called Rasputin. It was largely sushi, which was a big deal in the mid 90s (though Moscow is quite a way from the sea, and you could tell...). They had a 'special menu' at the place: for a few more bucks, you could eat the sushi from body of the waitress.
I'll see if I can remember some of more of the jokes...
If somebody hasn't already done it, a compendium of post-Soviet jokes would be a superb resource to leaven some of the dry as dust academic studies about those days.
Amazing, Christopher, thanks for sharing. My direct memory of that time is very blurry—I do remember "Misha 2 percent" (who now became one of the minor opposition leaders, funnily enough) from my parents' watching TV, but that's probably because I was just learning what "percent" meant. I was five when we moved to Israel, and Russia of the nineties was mostly experienced through a Russian cable TV channel.
I do think that the folk nature of these jokes can give some insight into what was going on in people's heads at the time. And as such, it should be a subject of more rigorous study.
A classic Soviet joke:
A guy is walking down a street in central Moscow and sees two men hard at work. One is digging holes, and when he moves on from one to the next, the second man behind him dutifully fills it in, levelling off the top nicely.
"Muzhiki, what on earth are you doing??" he asks, in disbelief.
"Planting trees. The third guy is on a day off."
Yes, a very good one. Do you mind if I use it in one of the next posts?
I'd be flattered! Please do. I will try to remember more...
Thanks!
Here's another (which sadly doesn't translate):
Two English men are riding the Moscow metro. One says to the other: 'I say, Charles, these Russkies... you know, not only do they behave differently, their physiology is quite different, too.'
'How so, Freddie?'
'Well, the other day I was going for a walk and one muzhik said to another 'Oden shapku nakhui, a to ushi zamërznut!'"
Not sure if this is a Russian joke or Odessan humour - ask an Odessan how much sugar they'd like in their tea and they'll answer '6 spoons, but don't stir it, I don't like it sweet.'
Wherever it originates, I love it.
Have you read Hammer and Tickle by Ben Lewis?
Thanks, that's a classic! Odessan jokes are a special category of Russian-language jokes (I'm stepping on a landmine here), with a very specific and identifiable type of humor. Another one similar to yours would be:
- How much sugar should I put in your tea?
- One spoon, but make sure I see you put it.
I haven't read it yet, but it's definitely on my list!
I'm only returning to these now but if you want to render them in English, baloney or salami are better translations for sausage.
Yes, I guess that works a little better.
I heard jokes like this from Serbian friends in the UK back in 1992. They said that all Yugoslav Jokes were about getting one over the Russians, and all Russian jokes were about dying.
The only joke I remember from them is the wheelbarrow smuggling one https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/1jnteo/a_man_lives_in_a_border_town_between_the_us_and/
I only just realised now (because I’m stupid), that the Pagliacci joke in Watchmen about the Doctor is a perfect example of Anekdoty.
Those are great! I know both of these jokes, and they indeed have their own Soviet variations. The wheelbarrow one is about stealing in a factory, and the Pagliacci one is about a Soviet comic writer, Zoshchenko. But otherwise, both are identical.
A bit over 30y ago, as a kid, I told an anekdot about a neutron bomb at a Toronto Russian community event. It pains me deeply that I can't remember the specifics.
Maybe some version of it will come through in a future post!.
The premise sounds great, I'm looking forward to it!
I don't get the Mike Tyson joke -- where did the butcher come from? Aaahhh -- strike that, I read it more closely!
What is the significance of the zinc-lined coffin? Does that simply mean it is leakproff so the decomposing body's fluids will not spill out? i.e. the body was just tossed in like in a high volume mass-burial operation? The american equiv would be I guess a "body-bag".
I believe zinc lining is used for long-term preservation of the body.
I get the sense it means a hasty interment with no funeral, it's almost like a mass grave, no standard civilian coffin or funeral, it's sealed and your son died a month ago, don't ask questions.
It came up in anekdoty about Ukraine war, too. So it means "soldier's burial" I guess.
Again, American verncular (especially Vietnam era) would be "shipped home in a body bag."
PS - would you recommend watching the movie referenced above? (“Dead Man’s Bluff” (“Zhmurki”), 2005) It looks hilarious, would a subtitled version be funny or would too much be lost?
I think it's just the cheapest way to halt the body decomposition while it's getting through army bureaucracy and traveling from a remote place. But yeah, probably the US analog would be "body bag", you're right.
I probably would recommend it. It is a good and weird movie. Balabanov is generally one of the best Russian directors in the last 50 years, and it's his only comedy (the rest of his stuff is incredibly bleak and nihilistic). As such, it would probably seem more absurd to you than to people who lived at that time and place, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing.
The movie was available on archive.org. I have watched through most of it. Notes/questions:
--!!Who did the music? !!! It's great, a just-slightly-off-kilter grunge soundtrack that puts me in mind of a scene in "Cryptonomicon"
I love how they just kill people and are not the slightest bit concerned about police or anybody investigating
Semyon's hidden arm guns are clearly an homage to travis Bickle's drawer-slide concealed pistol in "Taxi Driver". You can see this guy watching that movie over and over and copying all his stuff.
The whole look is so very ... Russian. I am a set and production designer. The look is heavy velvet draperies and old luxury with dismal gray exteriors and peeling paint. there is much gilding and ivory-painted wood. Even the "drug lab" has glassware on precious shelves like teacups. it all seems like it was made so long ago.
I am in your debt,
BRetty
The whole visual look of this film taught me more about Russia, the historical place, and Russia, the current place and people, than any writing or interview ever could have.
It does not look good. I have affection for Russians but this looks like the worst combination of Decaying England, Decaying America, and Decaying South Africa. It is utterly dismal. I thought I was tired of California but I want to walk out tomorrow in the sunshine and embrace the very earth.
:={
I am glad you enjoyed it, although I would recommend caution with Balabanov's other films (especially Cargo 200); they can be absolutely as dismal, but without even the slightest comedic undertones. This one was his attempt at a Tarantinoesque action-comedy. You will probably do enjoy his most famous films, Brother and Brother 2. They are straight action flicks, but they have similar aesthetics. I would put them somewhere between Rambo, Taxi Driver and Death Wish in tone, but with a Russian twist, of course.
The music was done by one of the most prominent Russian rock bands, Nautilus Pompilius, they were Balabanov's common co-creators.
Nautilus Pompilius is a great find! I like them.
There is that in the Russian soul that only they (you?) can put into words. Anekdoty make that spech manifest.
Thanks! Glad to hear.
My favorite, which I heard from Prof. Vejas Liulevicius:
It's the day after the Warsaw Pact has been signed, and two Poles are walking down the street.
"Comrade," says the first one, "are the Russians our friends or our brothers?"
"Why Comrade! The Russians are our brothers!" The second replies. He looks around, then whispers, "You get to choose your friends."
That's a really good one! True, as well.